電源專家齊聚Electronica 2022

今天我們將討論在Electronica 2022期間舉行的電力電子論壇。從11月15日至18日都有主題演講、座談和技術展示。主要議題是不同市場的寬能隙半導體、電源、可再生能源、智慧電網和儲能...

時長: 40:26 | 發佈者: EE Times Taiwan | 發佈時間: 2022-11-15

電源專家齊聚Electronica 2022

Welcome to PowerUP, a podcast show hosted by Maurizio Di Paolo Emilio that brings light to some of the stories on power electronics technologies and products featured on PowerElectronicsNews.com and through other AspenCore Media publications. In this show, you’ll hear both engineers and executives discuss news, challenges, and opportunities for power electronics in markets such as automotive, industrial, and consumer. Here is your host, editor-in-chief of PowerElectronicsNews.com and EEWeb.com, Maurizio Di Paolo Emilio.

 歡迎收聽由Maurizio Di Paolo Emilio主持的podcast節目Powerup。本節目為 PowerElectronicsNews.com 和其他 AspenCore Media 旗下網站的內容帶來活力。在本節目中,您將聽到工程師和高層討論電力電子和汽車、工業與消費性電子等市場的新聞、挑戰和商機。歡迎我們的主持人,Power Electronics NewsEEWeb.com主編Maurizio Di Paolo Emilio

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:  Hello everyone, and welcome to this new episode of PowerUP, where today we will talk about the Power Electronics Forum at Electronica 2022 in November. From November 15 to 18, Electronica 2022 will bring the international electronics industry together at the Munich exhibition grounds. We are organizing a Power Electronics Forum and embedded forum with my colleague Nitin Dahad, editor-in-chief of embedded.com. For each forum, we have keynotes, panel discussions, and technical presentations. The main topics are wide-bandgap semiconductors, power supplies, renewable energies, smart grid, and energy storage, in different markets, and these will be the major topics that we will cover at the Power Electronics Forum. To visit the forum, no registration is necessary. Just come to the forum in Hall A4, Booth 473 and listen to the sessions of your choice. The agenda is on the website powerelectronics.eetimes.com.

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:大家好,歡迎收聽 PowerUP的這一集新節目,今天我們將討論在Electronica 2022期間舉行的電力電子論壇。從11月15日至18日,Electronica 2022將在慕尼黑的展覽場地聚集國際電子產業。我跟我的同事,embedded.com主編Nitin Dahad一起舉辦組織電力電子論壇和嵌入式論壇。每場論壇我們都有主題演講、座談和技術展示。主要議題是不同市場的寬能隙半導體、電源、可再生能源、智慧電網和儲能,這些將是我們將在電力電子論壇上討論的主要議題。要參加論壇,不必一定要註冊,只要到會場的Hall A4,473 號攤位,聆聽你選擇的場次。詳細議程在 powerelectronics.eetimes.com 網站上。

 Let’s see the agenda. On November 15, we will start with an opening talk by Mathias Kasper, lead principal engineer in power-operated systems at Infineon. He will talk about advanced power management solutions for the next generation of ultra-high–density USB-C adaptors and on-board chargers. After the opening talk, we have many technical talks and one panel about the technical trends with power conversion. In this panel, the speakers will share their thoughts, the next challenges, and the new technologies, such as wide-bandgap solutions, to support power conversion in different applications and markets. I will moderate this panel, and the speakers are Dilder Chowdhury, director of strategic marketing for power GaN technology at Nexperia; Mark Drucker, CEO of Silanna Semiconductor North America; Erich Niklas, senior channel manager, technical marketing SiC at Microchip; Matteo Ovi, head of B2B sales and business development at Eggtronic; Tim Philips, chief operating officer and SVP sales and marketing at Empower Semiconductor; and Pietro Scalia, director of automotive traction solutions at onsemi.

讓我們看看議程。11月15日,我們將從英飛凌電力運作系統首席工程師Mathias Kasper的開幕演說開始;他將討論用於下一代超高密度USB-C轉接器和車載充電器的先進電源管理解決方案。開場演說之後,我們有很多技術演講和一個關於電源轉換技術趨勢的座談。在這個座談中,講者將分享他們的想法、下一個挑戰以及寬能隙解決方案等新技術,以支援不同應用和市場中的功率轉換。我將主持這個座談,發言人是Nexperia功率GaN技術戰略行銷總監Dilder Chowdhury、Silanna Semiconductor North America執行長Mark Drucker、Microchip SiC技術行銷資深通路經理Erich Niklas、Eggtronic的B2B銷售與業務開發主管Matteo Ovi、Empower Semiconductor營運長暨資深業務副總裁Tim Philips,及onsemi汽車牽引解決方案總監Pietro Scalia

On November 16, the topic is wide-bandgap semiconductors. We have an opening talk by Filippo Di Giovanni, strategic marketing, power transistor macro division at STMicroelectronics. Filippo will talk about silicon carbide meeting tough automotive quality and reliability targets; GaN comes next. We have then other technical talks, one panel where we will talk about challenges of silicon carbide and gallium nitride in various application contexts. I will moderate this panel with six speakers. These speakers are Doug Bailey, vice president of marketing and applications engineering at Power Integrations; Gerald Deboy, distinguished engineer, power semiconductors and system engineering at Infineon; Alex Lidow, CEO of Efficient Power Conversion (EPC); Aly Mashaly, director of automotive applications and power systems at ROHM Semiconductor; Guy Moxey, senior director of power marketing at Wolfspeed; and Stephen Oliver, VP corporate marketing and investor relations at Navitas Semiconductor.

11月16日的主題是寬能隙半導體。STMicroelectronics功率電晶體宏觀部門戰略行銷部Filippo Di Giovanni將做開場演講。Filippo將討論碳化矽如何滿足嚴苛的汽車質量和可靠性目標;接下來是GaN 。然後我們進行了其他技術討論,其中一個座談討論了碳化矽和氮化鎵在各種應用環境中的挑戰。我將主持這個由六位講者組成的座談。這些講者是Power Integrations 行銷和應用工程副總裁Doug Bailey、英飛凌功率半導體和系統工程傑出工程師Gerald Deboy、Efficient Power Conversion (EPC)執行長Alex Lidow、ROHM Semiconductor車用和電源系統總監Aly Mashaly、Wolfspeed電力行銷資深總監Guy Moxey、Navitas Semiconductor企業行銷和投資者關係副總裁Stephen Oliver

On November 17, we have many technical talks and two keynotes, one by Hassane El-Khoury, president and CEO of onsemi. He will talk about power and renewable energy for a better tomorrow. The next keynote is by Guy Moxey, senior director of power marketing at Wolfspeed. He will talk about enabling better energy storage with SiC, the common denominator to superior energy conversion across all power levels.

11 月 17 日,我們有許多技術講座和兩個主題演講,其中一個由onsemi總裁兼執行長 Hassane El-Khoury主持。他將討論電力和可再生能源,以創造更美好的明天。下一場專題演說由Wolfspeed電力行銷資深總監Guy Moxey主持。他將討論使用SiC實現更好的能量儲存,這是在所有功率級別實現卓越能量轉換的共同點。

On November 18, we have topics like power supplies and motor control. We have several technical talks, in particular two keynotes, one by Alex Lidow, CEO of EPC. He will talk about GaN technology accelerating as power density increases, and the next keynote by Cristian Ionescu Catrina, senior product marketing manager at Power Integrations. He will talk about how to design reliable and efficient motor drives and get to market faster. You can find the full agenda at powerelectronicsforum.eetimes.com.

11月18日,我們將討論電源和馬達控制等主題。我們有幾場技術演講,特別是兩場專題演說,一場是EPC執行長Alex Lidow的演講,他將討論GaN技術隨著功率密度的增加而加速發展,以及Power Integrations資深產品行銷經理Cristian Ionescu Catrina的下一個主題演講。他將討論如何設計可靠、高效的馬達驅動器並更快地將其推向市場。完整的議程可以在 powerelectronicsforum.eetimes.com 找到。

Let’s talk now with some speakers that will talk at Power Electronics Forum at Electronica. I’m going to talk with Hassane El-Khoury, CEO of onsemi; Mark Drucker, CEO of Silanna Semiconductor North America; and Alex Lidow, CEO of EPC.

接著讓我們來跟一些將在Electronica電力電子論壇發表演說的講者聊聊,包括onsemi執行長Hassane El-Khoury、Silanna Semiconductor North America執行長Mark Drucker,以及EPC執行長Alex Lidow

Hassane serves as a director of onsemi Corporation and has been president and CEO of onsemi and Semiconductor Components Industries LLC since December 2020. His career has fostered a deep understanding of customer and design requirements in automotive and industrial markets, as well as a systems-level understanding to form integrated customer solutions and business strategy to drive results. Mark is CEO of Silanna Semiconductor North America. He was a co-founder of IO Semiconductor, which was acquired by the Silanna Group in 2012. Mark has 35 years of experience in the semiconductor industry, 23 of which have been in executive management. Alex is CEO and co-founder of EPC. Prior to founding EPC, Alex was CEO of International Rectifier Corporation, a co-inventor of the HEXFET power MOSFET. He holds many patents in power semiconductor technology and with many publications and the first textbook on GaN transistors.

Hassane是onsemi Corporation董事,從2020年12月以來擔任onsemi and Semiconductor Components Industries LLC 的總裁暨執行長,他的職業生涯培養了對汽車和工業市場客戶和設計要求的深度了解,對系統級的理解則形成對整合客戶解決方案和業務戰略以推動結果。 Mark 是Silanna Semiconductor North America 的執行長。他是IO Semiconductor 的聯合創始人,該公司於2012年被Silanna Group收購。Mark在半導體產業擁有35年經驗,其中23年是在執行管理領域。Alex是EPC執行長和共同創辦人,在創立EPC之前,Alex 是International Rectifier Corporation (IR)──該公司是HEXFET功率MOSFET的共同發明者──執行長。他在功率半導體技術方面擁有多項專利,並擁有許多出版物和第一本關於GaN電晶體的教科書。

Hi, Hassane. Thanks a lot for joining me at PowerUP. How are you?

Hi Hassane,非常感謝您加入PowerUP 。你好嗎?

HASSANE EL-KHOURY:Good, good. How are you? Thanks for having me.

HASSANE EL-KHOURY:很好,很好。你好嗎?感謝邀請我。

 MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Thank you. I’m fine. So Electronica is coming in November. So what are you looking forward to at Electronica this year?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: 謝謝。我很好。Electronica將在11月到來,您對今年的電子展有何期待?

 HASSANE EL-KHOURY: Well, there are a lot of things to look forward to. Obviously, as the world’s largest trade fair/conference for electronics, it’s a great, great venue for us to meet customers but, more importantly, to show customers our technology, intelligent power, and intelligent sensing, and that’s what we plan on doing this year. We have a lot of exciting demos. If you think about it, we haven’t really had a conference for probably about four years now. So this is a great venue for all the industry, especially for onsemi, given our transformation, to showcase some of these technologies in the markets that matter for us, and really for our society. You always hear me talk about sustainable ecosystem. So we talk about innovative technologies in automotive especially, focused on EV, cloud power, industrial, renewable energy. You’re going to see us showcasing a lot of that. The other benefit, of course for me personally, as I’ll be attending, is meeting all the customers. As things opened up over the past few years, we’ve had the opportunity to meet customers and partners in person. But this, again, is a great venue for all of us to meet each other around technology. So that’s another thing I look forward to. We have a packed schedule. We have a packed venue and booth. So I invite everybody to stop by and see what we have.

HASSANE EL-KHOURY:嗯,有很多事情值得期待。顯然,作為世界上最大的電子產品貿易展覽會/會議,這是我們與客戶會面的絕佳場所,但更重要的是,向客戶展示我們的技術、智慧電源和智慧感測,這就是我們計劃今年做的。我們有很多令人興奮的展示。仔細想想,我們大概有四年沒有真正舉行過會議了。因此,鑑於我們的轉型,這對所有產業來說都是一個很好的場所,尤其是對onsemi來說,在對我們乃至我們的社會都很重要的市場上展示其中一些技術。你總是聽到我講到永續生態系統,我們特別討論汽車領域的創新技術,重點關注電動車、雲端算力、工業、可再生能源…你會看到我們展示了很多這樣的東西。另一個好處,當然對我個人而言,我會在參展期間見所有客戶,隨著過去幾年的發展,我們有機會親自會見客戶和合作夥伴。但這又一次成為我們所有人圍繞技術相互交流的絕佳場所。所以這是我期待的另一件事。我們有一個很緊湊的日程表,展場以及我們的攤位會有很多人,我邀請大家過來看看我們有什麼。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: So you will give a talk about renewable energies, powering renewable energies for a better tomorrow at our power forum. So not only wide-bandgap semiconductors such as GaN and SiC, but several technologies around power electronics, smart grid, micro grid, macro grid, artificial intelligence, that will support this expansion. In our PowerUP in June of this year, you said our responsibility as a technical community and as engineers is to take action to do something. So each of us should take the first step. So we have a responsibility not only individually but also organizationally. So what are key technological bottlenecks preventing the more widespread deployment of zero- and low-carbon energy sources? Do you think that the competition for so-called rare materials to produce batteries for solar panels, etc., could be a slowdown in the path toward greater sustainability of the energy industry?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:所以您將在我們的電源論壇上就可再生能源、以及為更美好的明天驅動再生能源等主題發表演說。因此,不僅是GaN和SiC等寬能隙半導體,電力電子、智慧電網、微電網、宏觀電網、人工智慧等多項技術都將支持這種擴展。在今年6月的PowerUP中,您說我們作為技術社群和工程師的責任是採取行動做某事。所以我們每個人都應該邁出第一步。因此,我們不僅在個人上而且在組織上都有責任。那麼,阻礙更廣泛部署零碳和低碳能源的關鍵技術瓶頸是什麼?您是否認為為生產太陽能電池板等所用的所謂稀有材料而展開的競爭,可能會減緩能源產業實現更大可持續性發展的步伐?

HASSANE EL-KHOURY: Yeah, and look, that’s a very important perspective, and that’s what my talk’s going to really be about — using technology to remove what you refer to as these bottlenecks. Whatever those bottlenecks are. Rare Earth is a bottleneck, not just in batteries. And I’ll talk a little bit about the motor side of it, especially for electrification. But if you think about it, what is our responsibility? We’re technologists. We’re innovators. Everybody at the show is involved one way or another, whether you’re pure technology or you invest in technology, or you use technology to solve a problem through a system integration. We’re all stakeholders in what we need to achieve as far as the zero- and low-carbon energy sources. But we’re also consumers of it, because we live in that society that requires it. So that’s the beauty of this kind of healthy benefit that we need to do where we contribute, but we also get a benefit. But in order for that equilibrium to happen, we have to solve bottlenecks that we know today exist.

HASSANE EL-KHOURY:是的,你看,這是一個非常重要的觀點,這就是我的演講真正要討論的內容——使用技術來消除你所說的這些瓶頸。不管這些瓶頸是什麼。稀土是一個瓶頸,不僅僅是電池。我也會談談馬達方面的話題,尤其是電氣化。但是你想想看,我們的責任是什麼?我們是技術人員,我們是創新者,展會上的每個人都以一種或另一種方式參與其中,無論您是純技術還是投資技術,或者你使用技術透過系統整合來解決問題。就零碳和低碳能源而言,我們都是我們需要實現的目標的利益相關者。但我們也是它的消費者,因為我們生活在需要它的社會中。所以這就是我們需要在貢獻的地方做的這種健康益處的美妙之處,但我們也得到了好處。但為了實現這種平衡,我們必須解決我們今天知道存在的瓶頸。

I’ll start at a high level, which is kind of the most important. You can’t really deploy EVs, which is a big portion of emissions, from internal combustion engines or transportation in general. EV is a solution, but EV can’t be the full solution if you don’t solve the grid and the renewal energy source in order to power the EV. And that’s that equilibrium, that sustainable ecosystem where one needs the other in order to get to its full potential. So we’re focusing on those as far as markets and enabling technology in these markets.

我將從高層次開始,這是最重要的。你不能真正部署電動車,這是內燃機或一般交通工具排放的很大一部分。EV是一種解決方案,但如果不解決電網和可再生能源問題以便為EV提供動力,EV就不能成為完整的解決方案。這就是平衡,一個需要另一個才能充分發揮其潛力的可持續生態系統。因此,我們將重點放在市場和這些市場的支持技術上。

You mentioned SiC. It’s a critical technology we at onsemi are investing in as part of our intelligent power in order to enable that innovation. Now if you take it a step, click lower, like you mentioned, rare Earth, that’s the next bottleneck. How can you have enough in order to capitalize and maximize that penetration of these low emissions and renewable energy sources that we need to have in order to achieve our goals of a sustainable future for future generations? Rare Earth becomes the next bottleneck.

你提到了碳化矽。這是我們在onsemi正在投資的一項關鍵技術,作為我們智慧能力的一部分,以實現創新。現在,如果你更進一步,點擊更低,就像你提到的,稀土,那是下一個瓶頸。你怎麼能有足夠的資源來利用和最大化我們需要擁有的這些低排放和可再生能源的滲透,以實現我們為子孫後代實現可持續未來的目標?稀土成為下一個瓶頸。

So as we know, motors for EVs, traction motors, require that rare Earth material. So we at onsemi, for example, took a different approach to it. We have a module that actually allows our customers to remove the rare Earth altogether from the motor. So we use innovation. We use technology to not only minimize the use of it, but to remove the use of it altogether. Those are just some examples of what we as an industry and we as individual engineers, we as everybody who would be hopefully attending Electronica, can contribute. When we identify the problem, the solution is going to happen. But it’s identifying the problem, thinking about the bottleneck, breaking through those bottlenecks, and using what we do best: problem solving, innovation, and technology. And that’s what we at onsemi focus on, and that’s what we focus on showcasing at Electronica this year.

因此,正如我們所知,電動車的馬達、牽引馬達需要稀土材料。例如,我們在 onsemi 採取了不同的方法。我們有一個模組,實際上允許我們的客戶從馬達中完全去除稀土。所以我們使用創新。我們使用技術不僅是為了盡量減少它的使用,而且是為了完全消除它的使用。這些只是我們作為一個產業和我們作為個體工程師的一些例子,我們作為希望參加電子展的每個人都可以做出貢獻。當我們發現問題時,解決方案就會發生。但它是識別問題、思考瓶頸、突破那些瓶頸,並使用我們最擅長的:解決問題、創新和技術。這就是我們onsemi 所關注的,也是我們今年在 Electronica 上展示的重點。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: So you mentioned earlier SiC, like wide-bandgap semiconductors. So it has the potential to increase EV driving distances by increasing the efficiencies, or the overall system efficiency. But also in the solar industry, SiC inverter optimization plays a large role in efficiency and cost savings. So we are seeing a lot of investments in terms of SiC. What are the cost benefits of moving to 200-mm substrates?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:所以你稍早提到了碳化矽,寬能隙半導體。因此,它有可能透過提高效率、整體系統效率,來增加電動車的行駛距離。但同樣在太陽能產業,碳化矽逆變器最佳化在效率和成本節約方面發揮著巨大作用。因此,我們在碳化矽方面看到了大量投資。轉向8吋基板有哪些成本優勢?

HASSANE EL-KHOURY: Sure. So look, SiC itself, let’s talk about the cost and why it’s important. But if you look at SiC as the technology cost versus what SiC enables at a system cost, we’re going to miss the big picture. So let me break it down just at a click below the high level, just to put it in context.

HASSANE EL-KHOURY:當然可以。所以你看,碳化矽本身,讓我們談談成本及其重要性。但是,如果你將碳化矽視為技術成本與碳化矽以系統成本實現的功能相比,我們就會錯失大局。因此,讓我在高層次下方面再分類一個層次以更清楚說明。

 Today’s technology is based on silicon. Silicon has been a great technology, has served its role, and it’s not going anywhere. There is now SiC that takes that power and efficiency to a different level. It is more expensive, because it’s more expense. It’s all new capital investment, and the technology itself is more expensive to create and manufacture. So let’s start at that baseline. However, the efficiency that you get at a system level — I’ll just use the EV example, because we’ve been talking about that. But the same efficiency happens across the board. What does efficiency gain to us as consumers and to the OEM manufacturer when I talk about efficiency on a SiC for a traction inverter? A couple of things.

 今日的技術以矽為基礎,矽一直是一項偉大的技術,已經發揮了它的作用,而且不會消失。現在有碳化矽將功率和效率提升到一個不同水準;它更貴,因為它的費用更高。這都是新的資本投資,技術本身的創造和製造成本更高。因此,讓我們從該基線開始。然而,在系統層級獲得的效率——我只以EV為例,因為我們一直在討論它。但同樣的效率發生在所有方面。當我討論碳化矽牽引逆變器的效率時,作為消費者和OEM製造商,效率會帶來什麼好處?包括以下幾項。

One is, if you keep the battery the same, the battery storage the same, you get much more range with efficiency. That is a very critical — you know, we all hear about range anxiety. That itself is a very big value add. So same battery pack, much more efficient conversion, longer distance. That’s a great value proposition. And at a system level, that value proposition offsets the cost of SiC. And I’m not talking about 200 mm versus 150 mm, just technology to technology still. In a different scenario, you say the range is fine. I would rather take some battery cells out. So efficiency, you hold the range constant. Now you have lower battery cost, back to the rare Earth, and weight and cost. So all of these you can reduce and still hold the competitive range deck you had prior to implementing SiC and the efficiency.

一是,如果你保持電池相同,電池儲存相同,你可以獲得更大的範圍和效率。這是一個非常關鍵的問題——你知道,我們都聽說過里程焦慮。這本身就是一個非常大的附加值。同樣的電池組,轉換效率更高,距離更遠。這是一個偉大的價值主張,在系統層面,該價值主張抵消了碳化矽的成本。我不是在討論8吋或6吋晶圓,只是技術對技術而言。在另一種情況下,’你說的行駛距離是一個好例子,我寧願取出一些電池。所以效率,你保持距離不變。現在你有更低的電池成本,回到稀土,以及重量和成本。因此,您可以減少所有這些,但仍然保持實施碳化矽和效率之前的競爭距離。

So that’s what SiC gains is that flexibility and optionality for the OEMs and the system designer to decide what kind of platform they would like. Is it high-performance, long-range, low-cost, lightweight? And SiC gives you all of that optionality. You don’t have to trade one for the other, because efficiency kind of ties all of it together. So that’s the baseline of how we get from kind of the silicon cost to the SiC is a huge savings, and a huge benefit at system level that we have to extract. And you only extract it through good technology on SiC, but more importantly, packaging.

所以這就是碳化矽獲得的靈活性和可選性,讓 OEM 和系統設計人員可以決定他們想要什麼樣的平台。它是高性能、遠程、低成本、輕量級的嗎?碳化矽為您提供了所有這些選擇權。您不必用一個換另一個,因為效率將所有這些聯繫在一起。所以這就是我們如何從某種矽成本轉向碳化矽而能大幅節省的基礎,以及我們必須提取的系統級的巨大好處,而且你只能透過碳化矽上好的技術來提取它,但更重要的是封裝。

You know, we’re all talking about power. If you can’t take heat off, you’re not going to get the efficiency, right? You’re going to pump a lot of heat in a small area with SiC. You have to get that heat out in order to get that efficiency. If you’re not able to through innovative and advanced package development, which onsemi has, you’re not going to be able to get that efficiency and the benefit that I talk about. So it’s all, when I talk about technology, it’s not just device technology. It’s also packaging technology, which is a very important distinction that we have to talk about when we talk about SiC or wide bandgap.

你知道,我們在討論的是電力,如果你不能帶走熱量,你就不會獲得效率,對嗎?你可以使用碳化矽在小範圍內抽取大量熱量。為了獲得那種效率,你必須把熱量散發出去。如果不能像onsemi透過創新和先進的封裝開發,無法獲得我所說的那種效率和好處。就是這樣,當我討論技術時,它不僅僅是元件技術,也是封裝技術,這是我們在談碳化矽或者寬能隙時不得不談的,一個非常重要的區別。

Now, when you go to the financials or economics of going from 150 to 200 mm, of course you get more die per wafer, and that gets you more throughput, and that gives you more capex efficiency for the capex that you invest. You will get more, and therefore you grow with a lighter capex, or better capex efficiency in general. But net capex doesn’t go away, because if you think about the penetration of EVs, you can argue it’s plus or minus two years, but 50% penetration by 2028. So end of this decade, we’ll be about 50% penetrated. There’s another 50% to go to. So there is a lot of new capex that has to get in, and as you put it in on 200 mm, you will get that throughput from more die per wafer, but again, it’s the packaging and the technology you have to focus on.

現在,當你談到從6吋轉向8吋晶圓的財務或經濟學時,當然你會從每片晶圓得到更多晶片,這能讓你有更多產量,會為你投資的資本支出提供更高的效益。你會得到更多,因此能以更少的資本支出成長,或者在整體上提高資本支出效益。但淨資本支出並沒有消失,因為如果你考慮電動車的普及率,數字可以有前後兩年的誤差,估計到2028年普及率為50%;所以到這個十年結束時,我們將達到50%左右的滲透率。但還有另外的50%,所以有很多新的資本支出必須投入,當你把它投到8吋晶圓時,你將從每個晶圓更多的晶片中獲得產量,但同樣,你必須關注的是封裝和技術。

 MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Okay, Hassane. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Looking forward to meeting you at Electronica, finally, and looking forward to your keynote opening talk on November 17. Thank you.

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:好的,Hassane。非常感謝,謝謝你。最後,期待在Electronica與您見面,也期待您11月17日的開幕專題演說,謝謝。

HASSANE EL-KHOURY: Yeah. And I’m looking forward to joining everybody, invite everybody to join not only the show but of course my keynote. It is a problem statement and a call to action, so I’m looking to talking to everybody about the opportunities ahead. Thank you.

HASSANE EL-KHOURY:是,我期待著加入大家,邀請大家不只要去觀展,還要來聽我的主題演講,這是一場問題陳述也是行動號召,所以我希望與大家一起討論未來的商機,謝謝你。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Hi Mark. Thanks a lot for joining PowerUP. How are you?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:Hi Mark。非常感謝您加入PowerUP。你好嗎?

 MARK DRUCKER: Very well, Maurizio. Thank you for having me.

MARK DRUCKER:我很好,Maurizio,謝謝你邀請我。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Thank you. So Electronica is coming. Tell me your perspective of Electronica that is coming back in person after the latest online edition

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:謝謝。所以Electronica即將舉行,告訴我您對於Electronica從線上版本回歸實體展會有什麼看法。

MARK DRUCKER: Well, Electronica is obviously an important show for the industry. You know, the last few years have obviously been challenging for all of us, but getting back to offline attendance allows us to get more face-to-face, direct interaction with our peers, our customers, even our competitors, and you know, fashion a better sense of where things are going, state of the technology and the industry. So I’m excited to be able to do it face-to-face again. You know, we’ve been to a few other shows already this year in person, and I know that we felt clearly that we were getting more out of it from an in-person event than we were for the virtual show.

MARK DRUCKER:嗯,Electronica 顯然是產業的重要展會。你知道,過去幾年對我們所有人來說顯然都是充滿挑戰的,展會能回歸實體出席讓我們能與同儕、客戶,甚至我們的競爭對手有更多面對面、直接的互動,而且你知道,更充分了解事物的發展方向、技術狀態和產業。所以我很高興能夠再次面對面地進行。你知道,今年我們已經親自參加過其他幾場展會,而且我知道我們清楚地感覺到,與虛擬展會相比,我們從現場活動中獲得的收益更多。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: So Mark, following the climate change demand, it’s important to have innovations. So the innovations will play an important role in general for all markets and also in minimizing the energy footprint of the digital economy. So the watchword is “sustainability,” and engineering has an important role in this case. You will talk during Electronica at our panel, our forum, about the next challenges in terms of power management, such as efficiency, thermal management, and features that are important in engineering. So what are the most critical ones, and what are you proposing to the market?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:Mark,為因應氣候變遷的需求,創新很重要。因此,創新將在所有市場,以及最大限度減少數位經濟能源足跡方面發揮重要作用。因此,口號是「永續性」,工程技術在這種情況下扮演重要角色。在Electronica期間,您將在我們的座談和論壇上討論電源管理的下一個挑戰,例如效率、熱管理和工程中重要的功能。那麼最關鍵的是什麼,你向市場提出了什麼建議?

MARK DRUCKER: I mean, at the end of the day, it really is effectively all about efficiency, isn’t it? Right? Whether you’re talking about the efficiency of the device itself, or the device that’s charging, all of these issues you raise, thermal management, density, all of those really fall down and can’t be achieved or can’t be improved without higher efficiency. I believe, I’ve read the average U.S. household has something on the order of 25 connected devices. So these are devices, each one of these needs to be charged, many of them every day, some perpetually. And so it’s an enormous load when you multiply that across a few hundred million households across just the United States alone, not to mention Europe, China, etc. So it really needs to be driven, right? And it needs to be driven across the full spectrum in terms of efficiency. So you can’t look at any one element.

MARK DRUCKER:我的意思是,效率終究非常重要,不是嗎?對吧?無論你是在討論裝置本身的效率,還是正在充電的裝置,你提出的所有這些問題,熱管理,密度,所有這些都會下降,若沒有更高效率,都無法實現或無法改善。我相信,我讀到過美國家庭平均擁有約25台連網裝置,這些裝置每一台都需要充電,其中許多是每天都需要充電,有些是要一直插電。因此,當你將其乘以光是在美國就有上億的家庭數時,這是一個巨大的負擔,更不用說歐洲、中國等地了。所以它真的需要推動,對吧?它需要在效率方面得到全面推動。所以你不能看任何一個元素。

We’re being pushed by our customers and by the market to improve not just sort of peak efficiency but efficiency across all line and load conditions. And there’s a lot of focus now on even no-load power and trying to minimize that. Everyone has many of these devices or even just the chargers perpetually plugged in. So that vampire power really adds up and can create a significant amount of loss over time. So certainly from our perspective in the space where we play today, it’s very much about efficiency. And so we’re deriving constantly, generationally, with architecture, better design, and incorporation of new material systems, whether that be GaN, SiC, or those still to come, to ensure that we’re able to deliver the most efficient devices in the industry, in the markets that we serve, and really minimize that load on the grid. And as we move forward, today our primary target is more of the connected device charging and powering. But beyond that, we will be looking at applications like automotive, etc. And certainly as the electronic content in the automotive sector continues to grow, and particularly as EVs continue to accelerate in their penetration, that efficiency becomes even more and more critical. So the ability to deliver EVs to the market that can charge quickly and operate as efficiently as possible is definitely facilitated by electronic solutions, electronic systems that minimize that power drain and allow the battery to stay charged as long as possible.

我們受到客戶和市場的推動,不僅要提高峰值效率,還要提高所有線路和負載條件下的效率。現在很多人都關注空載功率,並試圖將其降至最低。每個人都有很多這樣的設備,甚至只是永遠插著的充電器。所以吸血鬼的力量真的會累積起來,隨著時間的推移會造成大量的損失。因此,從我們今天所處空間的角度來看,這在很大程度上與效率有關。因此,我們不斷推陳出新,透過架構、更好的設計和新材料系統的整合,無論是氮化鎵、碳化矽還是未來的材料系統,以確保我們能夠在我們服務的市場中提供產業界最高效率的裝置,並真正將電網負載降至最低。隨著我們的前進,今天我們的主要目標是更多連網裝置的充電和供電。但除此之外,我們還將著眼於汽車等應用。當然,隨著汽車領域的電子內容不斷成長,尤其是隨著電動車繼續加速滲透,效率變得越來越重要。因此,電子解決方案、電子系統可以最大限度地減少功耗並讓電池盡可能長時間保持充電狀態,這無疑有助於向市場提供能夠快速充電並儘可能高效運行的電動車。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: So with the development of intelligent technologies, many companies are making a key contribution to dealing with the global challenges of climate change. And as you mentioned earlier, new materials are coming, and also efficient chip solutions will play an important role in this process. So it’s important to facilitate the acceleration of the energy transitions. What are the technologies that can offer innovation for leadership in specific markets, renewables, micro grid, and other trends? Other energy trends are putting greater emphasis on the reliability of edge in electrical infrastructure, but also transmission, distribution lines, around the world.

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:隨著智慧技術的發展,許多公司正在為因應全球氣候變遷挑戰做出重要貢獻。正如您之前提到的,新材料不斷湧現,高效率的晶片解決方案將在這一過程中發揮重要作用。因此,促進能源轉型的加速非常重要。哪些技術可以為特定市場、可再生能源、微電網和其他趨勢的領導地位提供創新?其他能源趨勢更加強調電力基礎設施邊緣的可靠性,以及世界各地的傳輸、配電線路。

 MARK DRUCKER: It’s a big question, right? Clearly, the technology landscape’s changing rapidly. From a technology and materials perspective, obviously the adoption of both SiC and GaN over the past five, 10 years has been rapid and broad, I think in many cases, more rapid and much more broad than many of us expected. Historically, the market tends to be strongly averse to paying premium for new materials without clear justification. And I think with a lot of the things we’re talking about, facing global warming, aging power grids, I think the urgency to embrace these materials has become quite significant.

MARK DRUCKER這是個大問題,對吧?顯然,技術格局正在迅速變化。從技術和材料的角度來看,在過去的五、十年中,碳化矽和氮化鎵的採用顯然是快速和廣泛的,我認為在許多情況下,比我們許多人預期的更快和更廣泛。從歷史上看,市場往往強烈反對在沒有明確理由的情況下為新材料支付溢價。而且我認為我們正在討論的很多事情,面對全球變暖,老化的電網,我認為採用這些材料的緊迫性已經變得非常重要。

Across the whole landscape, from automotive to PV and solar and alternative energy to consumer applications, these new materials are being adopted very rapidly. To drive higher efficiency, higher density, faster charging, the proliferation of electronics at the consumer level has created a real need, like we discussed earlier. That certainly out on its own has put a pretty significant load on the grid with all these devices being charged mostly on a daily basis. But now with the accelerated adoption of EVs, there is a corresponding need for charging, as load’s going to be growing exponentially. And I think we don’t play much in that sort of grid world, but I think it’s going to be a need that’s going to have to get addressed in a lot of different ways. A lot of intelligence is going to have to be applied there. There needs to be constant effort, obviously across the industry, to drive more intelligent solutions. And that’s sort of where our focus has always been, not to solve every problem with a sledgehammer, but really think through it and deliver intelligent solutions that enable adoption.

在整個領域,從車輛到太陽光電、太陽能和替代能源再到消費應用,這些新材料正在迅速被採用。正如我們之前討論的那樣,為了推動更高效率、更高密度、更快的充電,電子產品在消費者層面的激增已經產生了真正的需求。當然,這本身就給電網帶來了相當大的負擔,因為所有這些設備大多每天都要充電。但現在隨著EV的加速採用,隨著負載將呈指數級增長,對充電也有相應的需求。我認為我們在那種網格世界中玩得不多,但我認為這將是一種需要,必須通過許多不同的方式來解決。那裡必須應用大量的智慧。顯然整個產業都需要不斷努力,以推動更智慧的解決方案。這就是我們一直關注的重點,不是用大錘解決所有問題,而是認真思考並提供能夠採用的智慧解決方案。

You know, if we give in infinite dollars, you can solve any efficiency problem, right? But the world doesn’t operate that way. So we have to be smart about how we embrace and apply those materials. Today, our focus is on charging. We’ve typically been material-agnostic. So our control systems will operate with GaN. They’ll operate with SiC. We’ve done designs with both. And they operate extremely efficiently with silicon. And so we feel that it’s really about driving intelligence and nuance in the overall system, and then applying those new materials as they make sense and they enable the system to achieve those goals. We’re moving as quickly as we can to embrace those materials, and the market is as well, and will continue to, best we can tell. So I think it’s a pretty significant challenge to address things like global warming and climate change. And from alternative energy sources to more intelligent grids to more efficient electronics, charging systems, etc., I think the industry’s got a long way to go and has a tall task in front of it.

你知道,如果我們付出無限的金錢,你就可以解決任何效率問題,對吧?但世界並不是這樣運作的。因此,我們必須明智地接受和應用這些材料。今天,我們的重點是充電。我們通常是不挑材料的,因此我們的控制系統能以氮化鎵元件運作,也能以碳化矽元件運作;它們將以碳化矽運作,我們已經用兩者完成了設計。而且它們在使用矽時效率極高。所以我們覺得這真的是關於在整個系統中驅動智慧和細微差別,然後應用這些新材料,因為它們有意義,它們使系統能夠實現這些目標。我們正在盡可能快地採用這些材料,市場也是如此,並將繼續如此,盡我們所知。所以我認為解決全球暖化和氣候變遷等問題是一個非常重大的挑戰。從替代能源到更智慧的電網,再到更高效的電子產品、充電系統等,我認為該產業還有很長的路要走,面前的任務艱鉅。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Thank you, Mark. Looking forward to meeting you at electronica, and looking forward to our panel on November 15. Thank you.

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO謝謝Mark,期待在Electronica 與您見面,並期待 11 月 15 日的座談討論。謝謝。

MARK DRUCKERAs am I. Thank you very much, Maurizio.

MARK DRUCKER:我也是。非常感謝,Maurizio

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Hi Alex. Thanks a lot for joining PowerUP. How are you?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:Hi Alex。非常感謝您加入PowerUP。你好嗎?

ALEX LIDOW: I’m doing great, Maurizio. Thank you.

ALEX LIDOW:我很好,Maurizio。謝謝你。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Thank you. So electronica is coming in a few weeks, back in person after 2020’s online edition. So what are you looking forward to at electronica this year? What are you going to show at electronica?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:謝謝。Electronica即將舉行,從2020年的線上版回歸實體展會。你們對今年的Electronica有什麼期待?打算在Electronica展示什麼?

ALEX LIDOW: Well, electronica for our industry is the greatest show on Earth. Everybody’s there, and just about everything. So I’m very much looking forward to reacquainting with all my old friends from the industry, and certainly looking forward to all the new things that I will see from other people. From EPC’s point of view, we’ll be launching a whole new generation of technology with our GaN devices. So that will be an exciting release at that time. We are also obviously looking forward to talking about all of our new technologies in GaN with our partner companies in the automotive industry, and also the solar industry, which has been really taking off lately.

ALEX LIDOW:我們產業的Electronica是地球上最棒的展會之一,每個人都在那裡,幾乎所有東西都在那裡。所以我非常期待與業內所有的老朋友重新見面,當然也期待著從其他人那裡看到所有新事物。從EPC的角度來看,我們將透過我們的氮化鎵元件推出全新一代技術。所以那將是一個令人興奮的發布。我們顯然也期待與我們在汽車產業以及最近真正起飛的太陽能產業的合作夥伴公司討論我們所有氮化鎵新技術。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: So you will talk at our forum about wide-bandgap semiconductors, and on the last day, you will give a keynote opening talk about power supplies or GaN for DC/DC. So designers of power solutions face challenges and are increasingly turning to so-called wide-bandgap technology to overcome the limitations of silicon. One of them is GaN, which you know very well. So as you said in one article, there is an advantage of GaN technology that cannot be matched by silicon. That is the ability to integrate power devices with signal and digital devices. So where are you betting with GaN and why?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:你們將在我們的論壇上討論寬能隙半導體,在最後一天,將發表關於電源或用於DC/DC的氮化鎵元件專題演說。電源解決方案設計人員面臨著挑戰,並且越來越多地轉向所謂的寬能隙技術來克服矽的侷限性,其中之一是您非常了解的氮化鎵 。所以正如你在一篇文章中所說,氮化鎵技術有一個矽無法比擬的優勢。那就是將功率元件與訊號和數位元件整合在一起的能力。那麼,你看好氮化鎵在哪裡的應用,以及為什麼?

ALEX LIDOW: So first of all, GaN is becoming very accepted. At the last Electronica, which was virtual, we did our own surveying, and 70% of people were not using GaN and didn’t have plans for GaN. In our last survey about a month ago, 70% of engineers either were using GaN or were planning to use GaN in the next year. So we now have a wide adoption or acceptance of adoption. And most people are still thinking in terms of discrete transistors, because it’s easier. It’s the MOSFET or the IGBT that they’re thinking of replacing with something better. And we are only seeing at the very leading edge the adoption of these ICs. And when I say leading edge, it’s the most mature of our applications. For example, our first application was LiDAR. Now LiDAR is widely adopting all of our IC families for LiDAR. And it’s gone beyond just autonomous cars. Now it’s for vacuum cleaners and drones and robots, and just about anything you can think of. You can do 3D imaging now very inexpensively

ALEX LIDOW:首先,氮化鎵正變得非常受歡迎。上一屆虛擬版的Electronica展會上,我們進行了自己的調查,70%的人沒有採用氮化鎵,也沒有採用氮化鎵的計劃。在我們大約一個月前進行的最新調查中,70%的工程師表示正在使用氮化鎵或計劃在明年使用氮化鎵。所以我們現在有廣泛的採用或準備接受採用。大多數人仍在考慮離散電晶體,因為它更簡單。他們正在考慮用更好的東西代替MOSFET或IGBT 。我們只看到這些IC處於最先進的應用。雖然我最先進,都是我們最成熟的應用領域。例如,我們的第一個應用是LiDAR。現在,LiDAR 正在廣泛採用我們用於LiDAR的所有IC系列,不僅限於自動駕駛車輛。它適用於真空吸塵器、無人機和機器人,以及幾乎所有你能想到的東西。你現在可以非常便宜地採用3D成像技術。

And then the second area is DC-to-DC and motor drives, most critically motor drives, where our fully monolithic power stages have seen wide adoption in areas where people want to miniaturize the motor drive. And obvious examples there are e-bikes, robots, drones, and power tools. And our power stage ICs, which have a complete monolithic half-bridge with drivers and level shifters and logic and protection, are just fantastic, because three of those and a controller and now you have a motor drive that you can run at both higher frequencies, quieter, and more efficiently.

然後第二個領域是 DC-to-DC 和馬達驅動,最關鍵的馬達驅動,我們的全單晶功率級已在人們想要小型化馬達驅動的領域得到廣泛採用。明顯的例子有電動自行車、機器人、無人機和電動工具。我們的功率級IC具有完整的單晶半橋,帶有驅動器和電位轉換器以及邏輯和保護,非常棒,因為其中三個和一個控制器,現在你可以擁有一個可以在兩種更高頻率下運行的馬達驅動器,更安靜、更高效。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: So at the latest Green Engineering Summit, you said that GaN and SiC will replace or are going to replace MOSFETs and IGBTs in new uses. So ultimately accounting for 100% of all new applications in the next year. So with GaN, a significant amount of energy can be saved, and according to your talk, we can save about more or less 50% of the energy used in bi-power supplies, and then about 20%, more or less, of the energy produced by solar panels now can be conserved with the use of GaN. That means panels will be more efficient. So an additional 10% of the electricity used for motion control, motor control as you mentioned earlier, can also be conserved. So how do you see the next energy revolution? Will we achieve the goal of decarbonization?

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:在最近的Green Engineering Summit上,您說氮化鎵和碳化矽將在新用途中取代或將要取代 MOSFET 和 IGBT。因此最終佔明年所有新應用的100%。因此,使用氮化鎵可以節省大量能源,根據您的說法,我們可以節省大約 50% 的雙電源所用能源,然後大約 20%,或多或少,太陽能光電板產生的能量現在可以通過使用氮化鎵來保存。這意味著光電板將更有效率。因此,還可以節省額外10% 的用於運動控制的電力,如您之前提到的馬達控制。那麼您如何看待下一次能源革命?我們會實現除碳的目標嗎?

ALEX LIDOW: I think that we have to understand that when you conserve energy, you don’t necessarily help our environment unless there is a companion to that, and that is how we use the money that we saved in conservation. So for example, if you are paying a thousand dollars a year on your energy bill and all of a sudden that bill goes down to $900, that’s great, but you didn’t necessarily save the energy, because you take that hundred dollars and you spend it on something that uses energy. So I think that the bigger issue for decarbonization is that we need to include the cost of pollution or cleanup of pollution into our cost of energy.

ALEX LIDOW:我認為我們必須明白,當你節約能源時,你不一定會幫助我們的環境,除非有一個附加條件,這就是我們如何使用我們在節能方面節省下來的錢。所以舉例來說,如果你每年要為你的能源賬單支付一千美元,突然間賬單降到九百美元,那很好,但你不一定節省能源,因為你拿走了那一百美元然後你把它花在消耗能量的東西上。所以我認為脫碳的更大問題是我們需要將污染或清理污染的成本包括在我們的能源成本中。

Today, we are basically subsidizing industries that pollute, because we’re not charging them for the cleanup. And in that, coal, we don’t charge them for the CO2 gas cleanup. We don’t know how to clean it up, but it’s certainly going to be expensive in the form of rising water levels and warming planet. So we need to figure out how to factor that in to our cost of energy. And then what’ll happen is, people will make smarter choices. They will choose the energy that is best for our future, as well as our present. And when that happens, we will decarbonize. Until then, the things like GaN and SiC that save energy give us a, I’ll say a little pot of gold that we can use to initiate those efforts, to encourage those efforts. And I am hoping and working toward making sure that they do, although certainly it’s a political struggle.

今天,我們基本上是在補貼污染產業,因為我們不向他們收取清理費用。在這一點上,煤炭,我們不向他們收取二氧化碳氣體清理費用。我們不知道如何清理它,但它肯定會以海平面上升和地球化的形式付出昂貴的代價。所以我們需要弄清楚如何將其計入我們的能源成本。然後會發生的是,人們會做出更明智的選擇。他們會選擇對我們的未來和現在最有利的能源。當這種情況發生時,我們將脫碳。在那之前,像氮化鎵和碳化矽這樣節能的東西給了我們一個,我會說是一小罐金子,我們可以用它來啟動這些努力,鼓勵這些努力。我希望並努力確保他們這樣做,儘管這肯定是一場政治鬥爭。

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Great. Thank you, Alex. Looking forward to meeting you at electronica and looking forward to our panel on November 16 and your talk on November 18. Thank you.

MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO:太好了,謝謝Alex,期待在Electronica與您見面,期待11月16日的座談和11月18日的演講。謝謝。

ALEX LIDOW: Thank you, Maurizio. We’ll see you soon.

ALEX LIDOW:謝謝Maurizio,我們很快就會見面。

 MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO: Thank you, everyone. Looking forward to meeting you at electronica from November 15 to 18. We are at Hall A4, Booth 461. This is the AspenCore booth, and the forum will be at Hall A4, Booth 473. Feel free to reach me for a meeting. See you next time. Thank you.

 MAURIZIO DI PAOLO EMILIO謝謝大家。期待在 11 月 15 日至 18 日的 Electronica 與您見面。我們在 A4 展廳,461 號展位。這是AspenCore展位,論壇將在 A4 展廳,473 號展位。歡迎聯繫我。下次見。謝謝你。

參考原文electronica 2022: Let’s Get Started!

 

 

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